Dick Cavett was a talk show gypsy, carrying his program in various iterations to six different networks over 40 years, most notably ABC late-night from 1970-74, PBS from 1977-82, and CNBC from 1989-95.
Under the heading of “And that’s the way it is…,” S’more Entertainment has compiled a two-disc set of highlights of eight episodes of “The Dick Cavett Show” (available now, $19.95 SRP – $13.99 on Amazon) from those networks in which his guests included some of the most prominent TV news personalities of those eras, from Walter Cronkite, Mike Wallace, Frank Reynolds and Barbara Walters to Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw, and 60 Minutes representatives Don Hewitt, Morley Safer, and Diane Sawyer.
These kinds of compilations are always instructive, and in this case also entertaining. As an example of how the past is prologue and how little has changed, iconic CBS news anchor Cronkite — nearly 50 years ago during a 1970 interview on the ABC show — laments the way politics has become so divisive and longtime ABC News anchor Reynolds says something must be done to ban the use of political attack ads and campaign commercials that are misleading. In a 30 year-old interview with NBC News anchor Brokaw on CNBC in 1989, he notes that one of the most important issues facing the country is gun control. And two years later in 1991, just after the Gulf War under the first President Bush, Cavett asks Dan Rather what would happen to the first reporter — “and I thought you might be the one” — who says “I’m sorry Mr. President but that’s a lie.” Rather responds that the “reporter will probably wind up selling insurance…” “I don’t think we’ll see it in my lifetime or yours.”
Of course Rather is still alive, President Clinton was busted for lying about his affair with Monica Lewinsky, and newsmen including Dan Rather on his blog (having been canned by CBS long ago for presenting a story about President George W. Bush’s service in the National Guard with facts not fully verified), have been telling President Trump he lies on a near-daily basis for the past two years.
Out of the blue during his interview with Rather, Cavett asks him if anyone has been asking him lately what is the frequency Kenneth? It’s typical of Cavett’s interview style that this question comes as a non-sequitur without any context or explanation for the viewer. But those who are old enough and have a good enough memory, will likely laugh out when Cavett blurts this out, as it was a reference to a very bizarre story Rather told police five years earlier in 1986 — that he was approached by two unknown men on the streets of New York City and attacked and beaten by one of them when Rather told the assailant that he must have the wrong man after the attacker asked Rather, “What’s the frequency, Kenneth?” Rather, who was already the subject of much criticism from the media and conservatives for his confrontational approach — he was punched during a broadcast on the floor of the 1968 Democratic convention, shot back a smart-aleck comment to President Nixon during a 1974 press conference that was considered disrespectful, and his stories on 60 Minutes resulted in multiple lawsuits — became the butt of many derisive jokes after this “What’s the frequency, Kenneth?” incident that was not verified for many years. Many accused Rather of making it up. The band R.E.M. even used the mysterious question as the name of a hit song in 1993. (Rather was later redeemed when a man who murdered an NBC stagehand in 1994 confessed that he was the one who attacked Rather eight years earlier under the belief that the media were transmitting messages to his brain.)
The interviews also reveal a lot about the way people talked and behaved in these eras of long ago, even respected news people and even on public TV programs. 60 Minutes producer Don Hewitt and fellow celebrity actor guests Melvyn Douglas and Gig Young on the 1970 ABC late-night show with Barbara Walters (who was then a “Today Girl” co-interviewer with Hugh Downs on NBC’s The Today Show), kept referring to her as “girl.” When Walters weighed in with her thoughts about how to approach sensitive topics with less confrontation — “We’d never have any private arguments and you could get everything off your chest and have no fights.” — Melvyn Douglas pats her face with a cupped hand and says condescendingly, “Dear naive girl.”
Viewers of these shows will likely find the pacing very slow by today’s standards, sometimes amateur-ish (Cronkite’s dog barks repeatedly during his hour-plus 1974 interview outdoors in his yard overlooking a Massachusetts bay, an office phone rings in the background during the Brokaw interview, and Cavett screws up the controls on a Teddy Ruxpin toy that leads to complete bungling of the planned comedy bits with the animatronic teddy bear), many uncomfortable gaps in the dialogue, and multiple occasions where guests seem to have little idea of who is in control of the conversation. Some of this is the nature of the era but most often it’s due to the personality of Cavett, a three-time Emmy-winner, who began his career as a stand-up comic, and had a reputation of attracting guests not usually seen on other shows and for getting them to open up with him.
These segments with the various anchors that include snippets of other guests (comedian Robert Klein sits in on the first Mike Wallace interview of 1970) run anywhere from 20-minutes to 70-minutes each.
The two interviews with legendary 60 Minutes reporter Mike Wallace – the other in 1986 – disappointingly are the least satisfying, with Wallace seemingly unwilling to elaborate on any answers that would make the discussion informative, insightful or entertaining even though he seems to be comfortable and enjoying being with Cavett. The most interesting exchanges with Wallace come when then-serving controversial FCC commissioner Nicholas Johnson joins the 1970 show on ABC and begins making comments that finally challenge Wallace to become more engaged.
It’s fascinating to see Walters and Sawyer at such early stages of their careers in male-dominated professions and panelists on these talk shows – Sawyer is extremely deferential (or at least respectful) to Hewitt and Safer even though they seem to be enjoying a good old boys’ club environment of slighting each other and making wisecracks about not even knowing Sawyer was a “girl” until they noticed she was the only one who didn’t go into the men’s room with the rest of them.
It’s Brokaw’s 1989 interview (six years after becoming sole NBC News anchor) that seems the most substantive and informative, mostly due to Brokaw’s clear understanding of the economic and business realities side of the news “business” and his willingness to talk about it (Cronkite claimed he knew nothing/didn’t care to know about such things as ratings or budgets). Brokaw is even quite open to acknowledging that he is willing to make a personal reaction comment at the conclusion of a news report as more local news anchors were doing at the time, something that was previously considered verboten by hardcore national news journalists.
— By Scott Hettrick